Attempt at a group effort for setting clues for a crossword intended for the July IQ magazine (2024)

Jejima Rijicho

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Jejima Rijicho

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Hi all,

I appreciate that the next edition of the Cruciverbalist is long overdue. I am awaiting a few replies from contributors - and I still have a few to write, which I hope to finish doing today (or tomorrow), children depending....

Meanwhile....

As an experiment, we are hoping to make a group effort cryptic crossword for the July edition of theIQ magazine. Eddie (AKA Perplexed) has kindly made the grid for us (Many thanks to him for this. Making themedgrids is NOT easy!) , with solutions that can be linked to the Paris Summer Olympics. We now just need to write clues for them, between us :-)

If possible (especially for the clues that do NOT have an Olympic / Paris reference) it would be great if the clues surface alluded to the theme...

E.g.

25A

Starters in race (except Italian Kayaker) inquire about massage (5)

Of course, we would need to stick to the guidelines of a maximum of three hidden clues (of which at least one needs to be reversed), eight anagram of part anagram clues (max of five straight anagrams - fewer preferred), one usage of each conceit (so only 'one 'the French' allowed in the whole crossword ;-)) etc. This is trickier to do with a combined effort. Of course, all clues can be tweaked - or changed until we get something really good, as a combined effort.

I have put in the example clue in the notes below, to show how we can add to things.... This DOES not mean that that will be the final clue there. It is just being an example, and could be tweaked, or changed completely. It is (however) an 'initial letter' clue, so that would be the only such clue for this crossword - if kept.

We have plenty of time to make this work as a group effort - and also plenty of time to go to a plan B, if the experiment for cooperative clue writing doesn't work.

If you see any clues that you like, please make suggestions. But perhaps just for two or three at a time, to give everyonea chance?

All the very best,

Jezz

Patzer

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On Monday, 4 March 2024 at 16:19:06 GMT, Colin Packer <cejpacker@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I appreciate that the next edition of the Cruciverbalist is long overdue. I am awaiting a few replies from contributors - and I still have a few to write, which I hope to finish doing today (or tomorrow), children depending....

Meanwhile....

As an experiment, we are hoping to make a group effort cryptic crossword for the July edition of theIQ magazine. Eddie (AKA Perplexed) has kindly made the grid for us (Many thanks to him for this. Making themedgrids is NOT easy!) , with solutions that can be linked to the Paris Summer Olympics. We now just need to write clues for them, between us :-)

If possible (especially for the clues that do NOT have an Olympic / Paris reference) it would be great if the clues surface alluded to the theme...

E.g.

25A

Starters in race (except Italian Kayaker) inquire about massage (5)

Of course, we would need to stick to the guidelines of a maximum of three hidden clues (of which at least one needs to be reversed), eight anagram of part anagram clues (max of five straight anagrams - fewer preferred), one usage of each conceit (so only 'one 'the French' allowed in the whole crossword ;-)) etc. This is trickier to do with a combined effort. Of course, all clues can be tweaked - or changed until we get something really good, as a combined effort.

I have put in the example clue in the notes below, to show how we can add to things.... This DOES not mean that that will be the final clue there. It is just being an example, and could be tweaked, or changed completely. It is (however) an 'initial letter' clue, so that would be the only such clue for this crossword - if kept.

We have plenty of time to make this work as a group effort - and also plenty of time to go to a plan B, if the experiment for cooperative clue writing doesn't work.

If you see any clues that you like, please make suggestions. But perhaps just for two or three at a time, to give everyonea chance?

All the very best,

Jezz

Across

1 (8,2,4) Chariots of Fire: Film set in Jerusalem? (8,2,4) ...

9 (8) Abrahams: ... in which a supporter acts badly to one of the main characters? (8)
10 (5) anger:
12 (4) rate: Running around track effortlessly, leaders display speed (4)
13 (10) superwomen:
15 (8) corduroy:
16 (6) avenge:
18 (6) rustle:
20 (8) elongate:
23 (4,2,4) coat of arms:
24 (4) Asia:
26 (5) reiki: Starters in race (except Italian Kayaker) inquire about massage (5)
27 (8) swimmers:
28 (1’3-5-5) L'ile-Saint-Denis: Confused, die still insane? That's insane, by the sound of it! (1'3-5-5)

Down
2 (7) arbiter:
3 (4) imam:

4 (8) Teahupoo: At Olympic surfing venue, upset leader after poor heat? Rubbish! (8)

5 (6) oyster:
6 (4-6) flag-waving:
7 (7) regimen:
8 (6,5) bronze medal:
11 (5,6) track record: Fastest song on the album? (5,6)
14 (10) guillotine:
17 (8) Olympian:
19 (7) Swahili:
21 (4-3) also-ran:
22 (6) nausea:

25 (4) amid:

Comments:-

1ac - When I first came up with this, I thought "WOW!!! What a brilliant clue"!

But there's a problem. The line in the Blake poem is:- "Bring me my chariot [singular] of fire", not chariots. Does that render the clue unusable, or can we stretch a point here?

The only alternative I can come up with would be something like:-

1. Film about heroic athletes beginning to protest "Sunday's final's not on", with 10 (8,2,4)

Which is an attempt at an "and lit" type clue, but looks horribly cumbersome. (10 = IRE = ANGER, which is the answer to 10ac).

28ac - This is the one where the Olympics connection is rather tenuous - the only real link is Paris. If you're not sure how the last part of the clue works, the answer is the name of an island in the River Seine (in Seine - geddit?).

11dn - The definition may need to be beefed up a little.

So there are my clues and comments.

Regards,

John

Jejima Rijicho

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Hi,

Many thanks to John for his contributions. I was planning to do an update today, as I have received a few proposed clues for the crossword from Matt, Eddie, Lyn and myself. There are now some 'doubled' (and even a 'tripled') clues - but that's fine, as we can select whichever one feels best.

I'll quickly (about to go to the dentist) add the clues that I have received in Blue (I think that I will keep them anonymous at this stage, so as to make discussion less personal), but here they are. (My apologies if I have missed any - I am rushing through the emails. If I did accidentally miss one of yours, please let me know - it was not intentional! - and I will add it later today.)

Okay, I *think* that I have added in all suggested clues so far..... Off to the dentist for a new crown!

Warm regards to all,

Jezz

Across

1 (8,2,4) Chariots of Fire: Film set in Jerusalem? (8,2,4) ... /Film transports one to paradise? (8,2,4)

9 (8) Abrahams: ... in which a supporter acts badly to one of the main characters? (8) /Bad actor after support while holding role in 1 ac (8)
10 (5) anger:
12 (4) rate: Running around track effortlessly, leaders display speed (4)
13 (10) superwomen:
15 (8) corduroy:
16 (6) avenge:
18 (6) rustle:
20 (8) elongate: Two famous billionaires missing close of Paris stretch (8)
23 (4,2,4) coat of arms:
24 (4) Asia:
26 (5) reiki: Starters in race (except Italian Kayaker) inquire about massage (5)
27 (8) swimmers:
28 (1’3-5-5) L'ile-Saint-Denis: Confused, die still insane? That's insane, by the sound of it! (1'3-5-5) /Olympic village jumble sale inside shortened plinth(1'3-5-5) / Germane capital area where, sadly, ladies listen in(1'3-5-5)

Down
2 (7) arbiter:
3 (4) imam:

4 (8) Teahupoo: At Olympic surfing venue, upset leader after poor heat? Rubbish! (8)

5 (6) oyster: French gold draped over Internet company backing Pearl Harbour? (6)
6 (4-6) flag-waving:
7 (7) regimen:
8 (6,5) bronze medal:
11 (5,6) track record: Fastest song on the album? (5,6)
14 (10) guillotine:
17 (8) Olympian: One delivering on this stage, Hermes perhaps (8)
19 (7) Swahili:
21 (4-3) also-ran:
22 (6) nausea:

25 (4) amid:

Comments:-

1ac - When I first came up with this, I thought "WOW!!! What a brilliant clue"!

But there's a problem. The line in the Blake poem is:- "Bring me my chariot [singular] of fire", not chariots. Does that render the clue unusable, or can we stretch a point here?

The only alternative I can come up with would be something like:-

1. Film about heroic athletes beginning to protest "Sunday's final's not on", with 10 (8,2,4)

Which is an attempt at an "and lit" type clue, but looks horribly cumbersome. (10 = IRE = ANGER, which is the answer to 10ac).

28ac - This is the one where the Olympics connection is rather tenuous - the only real link is Paris. If you're not sure how the last part of the clue works, the answer is the name of an island in the River Seine (in Seine - geddit?).

11dn - The definition may need to be beefed up a little.

So there are my clues and comments.

Regards,

John

Jejima Rijicho

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Hi,

No new crown at the dentist today - the one made for me didn't fit :-(

So, I'll throw in some thoughts to the clues so far submitted. I'm going to change all to black, to keep things as impersonal as possible.

As a start, I think that maybe I suggested the wrong approach to this (please comment!), and perhaps a better way would have been to divide the puzzle into four parts. Across clues 1-16, Across clues 18-28, Down clues 2- 8 and Down clues 11-25. Then tackle each 'quarter' in turn. Setters would send to me as many clues as they liked within the quartile, within a week'stime frame, which I would then compile together for the group, for discussion, tweaks etc. That might be a better way?

Also, this is meant to be the 'normal' cryptic crossword for the edition of the puzzle pages that happens to be all 'Olympics related'. Another crossword, (a 'themed' crossword) is already mostly ready to be included as the cryptic 'with a twist'. Therefore, I think, if possible, we should avoid referring to the theme within the clues - if that makes sense. Similar to the way that 'Picaroon' (is that the right one? David will know) sneaks in 'Ghost themes' into his crosswords in the Guardian, rather than the blatant way that 'Paul' (or Araucaria of yore) makes 'themed puzzles' for the same publication. So, directly implying that there is a theme for *this* crossword should be avoided, in my opinion.

On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 21:59, Patzer via groups.io <john.clarke20=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Across

1 (8,2,4) Chariots of Fire:

Looks like, 'film' is a popular definition here ! I don't think anything extra is needed for the definition.

Film set in Jerusalem? (8,2,4)

As already mentioned bythe setter himself, the line in 'Jerusalem' is 'Bring me my chariot of fire' in the singular, which is (sadly) a problem, I think.

Film transports one to paradise? (8,2,4)

See Also

Today's Wordle hint and answer on Thursday 25th July for 1132Franchise that includes "Iron Man" and "WandaVision" for short crossword clue Archives - LAXCrossword.com

The 'one' is problematic, I think.

Maybe,

Film transports to paradise?

Although, the Biblical story has Elijah going to 'heaven', rather than 'paradise' - which is probably splitting hairs, but I would say that Biblically, 'paradise' is more in line with the Garden of Eden, than heaven. Would the surface lose much if....

Film transports to heaven?

Film about heroic athletes beginning to protest "Sunday's final's not on", with 10 (8,2,4)

I am not sure that I fully see the wordplay for this one.

I can see....

about heroic = anagram of heroic

?athletes beginning = a? and part of the above anagram?

so

chario_ _ / _ _ / _ _ _ e

If 10 = anger = ire, for the end of the clue, then we have an extra 'e'? And I can't see how the rest of the clue works.... Help!

I do like 'heroic' though....

Film a heroic movement getting around terrible old tariffs

Film = def

a heroic movement = chario e

getting around = containment indicator

terrible o{ld} tariffs = ts of fir

Oh, the 'a' is doubled :-( - so doesn't work....

Film first of a heroic movement

....works, but the 'of' in the anagrind and in the final solution isn't great IMO.

Film casting for fast, heroic individual

maybe?

Film = definition

casting = anagram indicator (as in 'throwing')

for fast heroic i = anagrind

although that 'i' is a bit iffy.....

Film casting for fast, heroic leading individual

Any good?

9 (8) Abrahams:

Looks like the ideas for this clue are similar...

... in which a supporter acts badly to one of the main characters? (8)

The definition 'in which....... ........one of the main characters' seems to circle the wordplay, which isn't really allowed,I think....

Bad actor after support while holding role in 1 ac (8)

while holding (while = as, around the previous parts of the clue), is a bit Yoda-speak, in my opinion... Is 'role' too much of a give away?

Bad actor after support while going around part of 1ac?

Maybe?

10 (5) anger:
12 (4) rate: Running around track effortlessly, leaders display speed (4)

Good, but I think on the easy side, because clearly a first letters clue?

Those in front, running around track effortlessly, display speed

might make this clue a tad trickier....?

13 (10) superwomen:
15 (8) corduroy:
16 (6) avenge:
18 (6) rustle:
20 (8) elongate: Two famous billionaires missing close of Paris stretch (8)

Is the mixture of a first name and a last name a problem? For me, it's not a problem - but for others?

23 (4,2,4) coat of arms:
24 (4) Asia:
26 (5) reiki: Starters in race (except Italian Kayaker) inquire about massage (5)

This was the starting example. I don't think we should have two first letters indicator clues in this crossword, so, if 12 across goes in, I think this one needs to be replaced.

27 (8) swimmers:
28 (1’3-5-5) L'ile-Saint-Denis: Confused, die still insane? That's insane, by the sound of it! (1'3-5-5)

Although the definition part is definitely clever, I am not sure if it is fair.... What do others think?

Olympic village jumble sale inside shortened plinth(1'3-5-5)

As referred to at the top of this email, it might be better to avoid mentioning directly 'Olympics' for this puzzle - although I have to admit that it is a fair definition. Is there any other way to define it, without that?

'shortened plinth' should really be 'plint{h}' rather than '{p}lint{h}, so I think that the anagram 'as is' doesn't quite work. Also, the surface is a bit odd, as it would be difficult to host anything inside a plinth? I do like 'jumble sale' though!

...jumble sale inside, until you, reportedly, left

remains an anagram (jumble) of sale+inside+until minus the u. There are probably better ways to remove the 'u'.

Germane capital area where, sadly, ladies listen in(1'3-5-5)

Another good anagram, but I don't like the 'Germane capital' bit, as it makes the crossword an 'official' themed crossword, rather than the 'unofficial' one that it is meant to be.... Does that make sense?

The anagram works here - which makes the clue tidier, but I do like the collocation of 'jumble sale' in the previous suggestion.

Parisian commune, where sadly, ladies listen in

Parisian commune'sjumble sale inside, until you reportedly departed

Naughty ladies enlist in Parisian commune

Down
2 (7) arbiter:
3 (4) imam:

4 (8) Teahupoo: At Olympic surfing venue, upset leader after poor heat? Rubbish! (8)

I like the idea. I think 'Olympic' can be removed, for the reasons mentioned above.

I think 'poor' shouldbe changed, as 'poor' is very similar to 'poo' at the end of the word. ('upset' is also similar to the 'up' in the middle of the word, but less obviously so - and not so easy to substitute... is it?).

Surfing venue upset leader after miserable heat? Rubbish!

I suppose (being in Tahiti) - a different meaning of 'heat' could be used.....

Surfing venue's terrible heat with naked sun? Rubbish!

Thoughts?

5 (6) oyster: French gold draped over Internet company backing Pearl Harbour? (6)

I LOVE the definition! Is 'Etsy' well-known enough to be fair? (I know it is in my household, as my wife is always using it... but elsewhere?)

6 (4-6) flag-waving:
7 (7) regimen:
8 (6,5) bronze medal:
11 (5,6) track record: Fastest song on the album? (5,6)

I think this one is rather clever :-)

14 (10) guillotine:
17 (8) Olympian: One delivering on this stage, Hermes perhaps (8)

I know that I should have mentioned it more clearly at the outset, but I think this clue probably fails in the first part, as the clue refers to the crossword's 'theme' which is meant to be a ghost theme. Which is a shame, as the collocation of 'one delivering' and 'Hermes' is really good, in my opinion. I can't currently think how to tweak the clue to keep those parts, whilst removing the 'themed' part. How about anyone else?

19 (7) Swahili:
21 (4-3) also-ran:
22 (6) nausea:

25 (4) amid:

Looking forward to reading the thoughts from others.

Jezz

Jejima Rijicho

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Hi,

No new crown at the dentist today - the one made for me didn't fit :-(

So, I'll throw in some thoughts to the clues so far submitted. I'm going to change all to black, to keep things as impersonal as possible.

As a start, I think that maybe I suggested the wrong approach to this (please comment!), and perhaps a better way would have been to divide the puzzle into four parts. Across clues 1-16, Across clues 18-28, Down clues 2- 8 and Down clues 11-25. Then tackle each 'quarter' in turn. Setters would send to me as many clues as they liked within the quartile, within a week'stime frame, which I would then compile together for the group, for discussion, tweaks etc. That might be a better way?

Also, this is meant to be the 'normal' cryptic crossword for the edition of the puzzle pages that happens to be all 'Olympics related'. Another crossword, (a 'themed' crossword) is already mostly ready to be included as the cryptic 'with a twist'. Therefore, I think, if possible, we should avoid referring to the theme within the clues - if that makes sense. Similar to the way that 'Picaroon' (is that the right one? David will know) sneaks in 'Ghost themes' into his crosswords in the Guardian, rather than the blatant way that 'Paul' (or Araucaria of yore) makes 'themed puzzles' for the same publication. So, directly implying that there is a theme for *this* crossword should be avoided, in my opinion.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2024 at 08:50, Jejima Rijicho via groups.io <jejima=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 at 21:59, Patzer via groups.io <john.clarke20=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Across

1 (8,2,4) Chariots of Fire:

Looks like, 'film' is a popular definition here ! I don't think anything extra is needed for the definition.

Film set in Jerusalem? (8,2,4)

As already mentioned bythe setter himself, the line in 'Jerusalem' is 'Bring me my chariot of fire' in the singular, which is (sadly) a problem, I think.

Film transports one to paradise? (8,2,4)

The 'one' is problematic, I think.

Maybe,

Film transports to paradise?

Although, the Biblical story has Elijah going to 'heaven', rather than 'paradise' - which is probably splitting hairs, but I would say that Biblically, 'paradise' is more in line with the Garden of Eden, than heaven. Would the surface lose much if....

Film transports to heaven?

Film about heroic athletes beginning to protest "Sunday's final's not on", with 10 (8,2,4)

I am not sure that I fully see the wordplay for this one.

I can see....

about heroic = anagram of heroic

?athletes beginning = a? and part of the above anagram?

so

chario_ _ / _ _ / _ _ _ e

If 10 = anger = ire, for the end of the clue, then we have an extra 'e'? And I can't see how the rest of the clue works.... Help!

I do like 'heroic' though....

Film a heroic movement getting around terrible old tariffs

Film = def

a heroic movement = chario e

getting around = containment indicator

terrible o{ld} tariffs = ts of fir

Oh, the 'a' is doubled :-( - so doesn't work....

Film first of a heroic movement

....works, but the 'of' in the anagrind and in the final solution isn't great IMO.

Film casting for fast, heroic individual

maybe?

Film = definition

casting = anagram indicator (as in 'throwing')

for fast heroic i = anagrind

although that 'i' is a bit iffy.....

Film casting for fast, heroic leading individual

Any good?

9 (8) Abrahams:

Looks like the ideas for this clue are similar...

... in which a supporter acts badly to one of the main characters? (8)

The definition 'in which....... ........one of the main characters' seems to circle the wordplay, which isn't really allowed,I think....

Bad actor after support while holding role in 1 ac (8)

while holding (while = as, around the previous parts of the clue), is a bit Yoda-speak, in my opinion... Is 'role' too much of a give away?

Bad actor after support while going around part of 1ac?

Maybe?

10 (5) anger:
12 (4) rate: Running around track effortlessly, leaders display speed (4)

Good, but I think on the easy side, because clearly a first letters clue?

Those in front, running around track effortlessly, display speed

might make this clue a tad trickier....?

13 (10) superwomen:
15 (8) corduroy:
16 (6) avenge:
18 (6) rustle:
20 (8) elongate: Two famous billionaires missing close of Paris stretch (8)

Is the mixture of a first name and a last name a problem? For me, it's not a problem - but for others?

23 (4,2,4) coat of arms:
24 (4) Asia:
26 (5) reiki: Starters in race (except Italian Kayaker) inquire about massage (5)

This was the starting example. I don't think we should have two first letters indicator clues in this crossword, so, if 12 across goes in, I think this one needs to be replaced.

27 (8) swimmers:
28 (1’3-5-5) L'ile-Saint-Denis: Confused, die still insane? That's insane, by the sound of it! (1'3-5-5)

Although the definition part is definitely clever, I am not sure if it is fair.... What do others think?

Olympic village jumble sale inside shortened plinth(1'3-5-5)

As referred to at the top of this email, it might be better to avoid mentioning directly 'Olympics' for this puzzle - although I have to admit that it is a fair definition. Is there any other way to define it, without that?

'shortened plinth' should really be 'plint{h}' rather than '{p}lint{h}, so I think that the anagram 'as is' doesn't quite work. Also, the surface is a bit odd, as it would be difficult to host anything inside a plinth? I do like 'jumble sale' though!

...jumble sale inside, until you, reportedly, left

remains an anagram (jumble) of sale+inside+until minus the u. There are probably better ways to remove the 'u'.

Germane capital area where, sadly, ladies listen in(1'3-5-5)

Another good anagram, but I don't like the 'Germane capital' bit, as it makes the crossword an 'official' themed crossword, rather than the 'unofficial' one that it is meant to be.... Does that make sense?

The anagram works here - which makes the clue tidier, but I do like the collocation of 'jumble sale' in the previous suggestion.

Parisian commune, where sadly, ladies listen in

Parisian commune'sjumble sale inside, until you reportedly departed

Naughty ladies enlist in Parisian commune

Down
2 (7) arbiter:
3 (4) imam:

4 (8) Teahupoo: At Olympic surfing venue, upset leader after poor heat? Rubbish! (8)

I like the idea. I think 'Olympic' can be removed, for the reasons mentioned above.

I think 'poor' shouldbe changed, as 'poor' is very similar to 'poo' at the end of the word. ('upset' is also similar to the 'up' in the middle of the word, but less obviously so - and not so easy to substitute... is it?).

Surfing venue upset leader after miserable heat? Rubbish!

I suppose (being in Tahiti) - a different meaning of 'heat' could be used.....

Surfing venue's terrible heat with naked sun? Rubbish!

Thoughts?

5 (6) oyster: French gold draped over Internet company backing Pearl Harbour? (6)

I LOVE the definition! Is 'Etsy' well-known enough to be fair? (I know it is in my household, as my wife is always using it... but elsewhere?)

6 (4-6) flag-waving:
7 (7) regimen:
8 (6,5) bronze medal:
11 (5,6) track record: Fastest song on the album? (5,6)

I think this one is rather clever :-)

14 (10) guillotine:
17 (8) Olympian: One delivering on this stage, Hermes perhaps (8)

I know that I should have mentioned it more clearly at the outset, but I think this clue probably fails in the first part, as the clue refers to the crossword's 'theme' which is meant to be a ghost theme. Which is a shame, as the collocation of 'one delivering' and 'Hermes' is really good, in my opinion. I can't currently think how to tweak the clue to keep those parts, whilst removing the 'themed' part. How about anyone else?

19 (7) Swahili:
21 (4-3) also-ran:
22 (6) nausea:

25 (4) amid:

Looking forward to reading the thoughts from others.

Jezz

Patzer

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On Sunday, 10 March 2024 at 16:52:48 GMT, Jejima Rijicho <jejima@...> wrote:

Clarsach

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Haven't had much time to look at this yet, but I can't resist a go at 23 across. (Coat of arms)

Would

23 Device on herald's record sleeve?

work?

Val.